Talk:Atonement
Damn, nice work on that testing Therinlahhan! Can you see if you can work out roughly how much enmity is needed to hit that 750 damage cap? And also, can it be hit with only 100% tp? For instance, if a pld claims a mob with flash and instantly follows it up with Atonement, how much will that do at 100% and 300% tp? Also does this mean that if the battle goes for a while (fighting an NM) then the pld can pull off 750 damage every time? I wonder if all the other weaponskills have such interesting, and job specific modifiers, although I can't for the life of me imagine what the modifier could be for most jobs O_O --Blazza 15:07, 10 September 2008 (UTC) ~Blazza, Well, the calculations are a little more in-depth than what I listed on the Wiki page (for the sake of space). If you're familiar with Kaeko's enmity tables, here's what we've come up with: - Flash gives 180 CE (cumulative enmity) and 1280 VE (volatile enmity). - Our basic ratio for damage to CE at 100% TP is 23/256 (or .089) damage per CE. I tested this a number of times and it produced extremely accurate results. The ratio for damage to CE at 300% TP is 51/256 (or .199) damage per CE. So, according to the calculations in terms of CE, the CE from Flash should produce an Atonement for 16 damage and 35 damage at 100% and 300%, respectively. The problem here is this: Flash doesn't ONLY give CE. It also gives VE (volatile enmity). VE is the same type of enmity that job abilities such as Provoke and Invincible give. VE is volatile, meaning it decays over time, at a tested value of 60 VE per second (all of this is accepted to be accurate within the community, if you want more for information on this just visit Kaeko's livejournal: http://kanican.livejournal.com/ - his tests are EXTREMELY in-depth). - The ratio for damage to VE is a little more difficult to derive mathematically. I tried to come up with a ratio for it, but it seemed to produce different results every time. For now, we can definitively say that the following equation is true for all values CE, at 100% TP: Damage = floor(CE*(23/256)) - Mathematically we can see that the CE of Flash at 100% TP produces an Atonement of 16 damage (to calculate it at 300% TP simply change 23/256 with 51/256). Remember that since Flash also produces 1280 VE, and VE decays at a rate of 60 per second, you would have to wait at least 22 seconds after casting Flash to get a result of 16 damage (but you should get exactly that result given you wait at least that amount of time). Using Atonement after Flash goes off, but before 22 seconds have passed will give you a higher result due to your VE, which hasn't yet had a chance to fully decay. - These calculations won't be entirely useful in everyday playing, obviously. We can't feasibly sit and calculate our CE and VE at any given time over the course of a battle. It is interesting to know, however, that Atonement damage is based on both CE and VE, and that CE appears to have more weight on damage than VE does. - Finally, as time goes by more tests will be done on this weaponskill. What I posted on the Wiki page now is fully accurate assuming a basic understand of enmity, I don't feel that it's necessary to go into more depth on the Wiki page because an understanding of CE and VE is only beneficial for scientific/mathematical curiosity, and rarely in practice. If you're interested, check out this thread: http://bluegartrls.com/forum/showthread.php?t=63084&page=6 - I've been posting test results there, starting on page 6, and I'm sure a lot of others will also be posting results as time goes by. *EDIT* I changed the formula to the exact numerical amount (a fraction rather than a decimal) so that it'd be more accurate. --Therinlahhan 15:40, 10 September 2008 (UTC) I am aware of the difference between CE and VE, but I know most people aren't, and it's always interesting stuff (props to kaeko). I don't know though, I think understand CE and VE, and especially how it degrades can be useful for any tanking job. It explains why nin/drk holds hate so much better than nin/war because of the high CE of stun as opposed to 1 CE of provoke (As well as why it's so hard to keep a rdm alive after chainspell stun lol). I guess for the most part though it's just gonna be a matter of experience on how much is needed to hit that damage cap, and decide if maybe other ws's are better before then. (Such as opening with spirits within still). Even though you didn't say how much effect VE has, would still be interesting how much it would do *immediately* after vlaiming with flash. --Blazza 22:20, 10 September 2008 (UTC) We're still working on the formula to determine exactly what the effect of VE is, but for now, from preliminary testing, it looks roughly to have almost half of the effect of CE. Therefore, it's better to stack CE, and not worry so much about the effect of VE, but if you've got TP and 5 seconds on your Provoke timer, it might be better to wait until right after using Provoke to use Atonement. :P --Therinlahhan 22:38, 10 September 2008 (UTC) Needs more pld/drk :D --Blazza 02:36, 13 September 2008 (UTC) Removed from main article: *Will do extra damage to monsters with a "Damage Taken +/-" effect (did double damage to an open mouthed Ul'hpemde. *With a TP wing, a Paladin can achieve a self Light Skillchain with Savage Blade. Open mouthed hpemde's take double damage from EVERYTHING, so kind of irrelevant. Also it's stated that this ws is fusion, so anyone that wants to blow tp wings to self SC on lolpld should be able to work that out for themselves. (but then again, they're dumb enough to waste gil on tp wings for pld...) --Blazza 02:45, 21 September 2008 (UTC) :Is Atonement Damage susceptible to bonuses from Equipment that increase Magic Attack bonus? Since Atonement is Magic (non element) based. Onjage 17:12, 26 September 2008 (UTC) ::It appears to be based on enmity just as spirits within is based on HP. I would have to assume that this is the ONLY modifier, just like spirits within and blu breath spells. It would be good if anyone could confirm this though. Maybe next time someone is solo-ing a campaign mob, should be able to get max damage pretty easy on that, then get 300%tp and slip on a moldy. --Blazza 01:32, 27 September 2008 (UTC) :Beautiful! Freke is a Cerberus mob, so he takes additional damage from Atonement. --Therinlahhan 02:33, 8 October 2008 (UTC) :Can we get some verification on that Atonement damage please? Therinlahhan has done a LOT of testing on this ws, and if he's saying that the max is 750, then I'm inclined to believe him. Was that 868 damage on a cerb or flan mob or something else that takes extra magic damage? --Blazza 02:20, 10 October 2008 (UTC) ::He says right there that Freke (From Einherjar) is a Cerberus-type enemy. -.- --Taeria Saethori 04:42, 10 October 2008 (UTC) :::nah sorry, that was aimed at the guy that has changed the main page twice. I tried to send it to him as a message but it wouldn't work so I posted it here. --Blazza 04:45, 10 October 2008 (UTC) Does anyone know if Hydra's Pyric Bulwark blocks Atonement just as Polar Bulwark does?Kilana 19:25, 16 October 2008 (UTC) :Moved your question there Kilana... Pyric blocks physical and polar blocks magical I think, so pretty sure polar bulwark would block atonement and pyric would not, however you'd need to get 100% tp before he uses pyric, or be close to it and get the rest from being hit/shield blocks, as you won't be getting any from your normal swings. --Blazza 19:30, 16 October 2008 (UTC) ::Had a PLD/NIN in my static try it on the Hydra in Nyzul (floor 80) recently during a farm run. It did 0 damage regardless of what type of shield was up. Any clue why?Zareth 04:37, 2 December 2008 (UTC) *Ive done a few tests in PvP, using Pld/dnc and Pld/rdm so we could survive multiple Atonement ws, its still baed on emnity received and the damage is lowered @100% tp to about 500~. Neither Invincible, fealty, rampart or sentinel in anyway shape or form reduced damage, you have to have magical immunity, it seems, to fully resist the attack. Although, we did not test stoneskin, we ran out of time before we could, if any1 would like to test it vs stoneskin that would be great. Damage with low emnity vs other jobs = lower dmg, is the probable explination behind hydra on floor 80. My sam develops so much emnity up there its almost impossible to take it off, so id say a pld would prolly be put low on the hate list on those floors even as /war, therefore reducing the damage (I've also seen this kind of result in beseiged on my pld/war). Also, i am not going to change the main page besides adding a few s on Rampart untill further testing can provide evidence otherwise. --Charles Guillen 05:04, 11 April 2009 (UTC) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOmWzbK3Rp0, a video showing how a move, orcish counterstance effects atonement. --- Hmmm, I'm getting up to 750 with 100tp and max hate gear..... so the main page seems to be not entirely correct. cheers Aphugel 23:15, 25 May 2009 (UTC) LOL... check this...: Holy CIrcle Atonement can do more than 750 damage vs skeletons w/ holy circle up. This is redundent info because the page already states Circle Protections increase the damage. See Circle Protections page for clarification. I rocky 02:12, March 27, 2010 (UTC) On Lamia Idolator's a friend and i was duoing them. He was using Death Blossom for around 350ish, then i would close the light skillchain with Atonement for around 1750 everytime. On a VT mob, sure makes you feel good about your pld hitting that hard ^^ - Kizite and Rimie